If God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good, then why does evil -- both natural and human -- still occur?

We see it everyday, either in our own lives or in the media. Whether it's a wildfire or an epidemic (natural evil), or a theft or a murder (human evil), this world has its share of needless pain and suffering. And yet God loves us and gives us so many good things in life. Why does evil occur at all?

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Permalink Reply by Warren C. Bennett on June 29, 2012 at 4:55pm

Free Will and Sin.

Permalink Reply by Frank L. Jordan III on June 29, 2012 at 5:18pm

Why does evil still occur if God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good?

As a young adult, I can remember grappling with the problem of evil and of God’s role in connection with it. The typical solutions I had heard weren’t really cutting it for me. I felt very early on that the theory of free will – that in order to offer love freely we have to be given free will, and that this is why God allows evil to happen – didn’t address natural evil, such as diseases and natural disasters. These phenomena occurred long before humans populated this planet.

So I decided to suspend everything I had heard about God’s role in relation to the problem of evil. Along with doing this, I also decided to suspend everything I had heard or read about what God’s power is. I decided to go straight to the source with my questions, without any bias towards the answers I might “receive”. I sent out my questions like an oceanographer sends out soundings to gather information. I felt strongly I would receive answers. And I believe I did … “like echoes from the depth of time” I would later write.

Permalink Reply by Frank L. Jordan III on June 29, 2012 at 5:41pm

Sorry that my previous post failed. I'll have to try again later when I'm on a more reliable computer! ;o)

Permalink Reply by Frank L. Jordan III on June 29, 2012 at 10:05pm

Why does evil still occur if God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good?

The worldview that began to unfold in front of me didn’t seem to at first address the problem of evil directly, but as the different aspects of it began to fit together, a possible new solution to the problem of needless pain and suffering in the world – of natural and human evil – began to emerge.

The first answer, or awareness, I received was that in the beginning, the fundamental realities of the universe – like the first chemical elements, gravity, electromagnetism, and the laws that govern them all – had to be what they were, that it was absolutely essential that they be what they intrinsically were because they derived directly from God, who is the Ultimate Reality. This reveals the universe as an unfolding manifestation of God. These primordial realities could not be anything other than they were.

At first this seems to limit God’s power, because one might ask, “Couldn’t God create the universe any way and with anything that he wanted to?” But in reality it doesn’t limit God’s power at all. It reveals that the questioner is asking from a biased perspective, a perspective that doesn’t reflect the way Reality truly is. It’s like asking, “Couldn’t God create a square circle?” One wouldn’t answer “no” to the question (and thus limit God), but one would rather say that the question itself isn’t in accordance with the Reality of God and the realities that derive from God.

The second answer, or awareness, I received was that from the moment anything was created, it naturally turned to God out of a need to be something more – to progress. This automatically set up a “call and response” dynamic between God and the universe. There was even a type of yearning – not like the yearnings you or I feel, but a yearning nonetheless – within complex molecules to be something more. God lovingly responded to this need – and life itself came into existence, began to thrive and grow. From that point on, the needs – the yearnings – within the universe became much more complex. This process sets up a dynamic of collaboration between God and nature to bring about the development of the universe. Along with many new life-processes, the reality of physical pain came into existence. Pain was not conjured up by God as some kind of warning system or learning experience, but is a natural result of the reality of sensation itself. As I wrote in my book of philosophy ~SOUNDINGS~: Exploring the Depths of God and Nature:

The reality of pain is intertwined within the very fabric

of this evolving universe.

It is an actual aspect of the unfolding manifestation of God,

of this continuing collaboration of nature with God.

So is the reality of pleasure,

although an understanding of pleasure is less intriguing.

We simply enjoy it, pursue it, long for it—

not really caring so much why.

But pain is another story.

It can consume us, overwhelm us.

It has the potential to drive us deep within ourselves,

crying out, reaching out with a yearning

and longing for release,

for something, someone, to deliver us.

The third answer, or awareness, I received (and perhaps the most applicable to the problem of evil) was that the realities that derive from God have an inherent power within them to resist the full power of God. This power to resist God is linked to the dynamic that these realities derive from God, and thus share in God’s Reality. This sets up another dynamic in which God is in contention with the life-forms in the universe to bring about their evolution and development. It’s not like these life-forms consciously resist God’s power. It’s more like this power to resist is just part of their very nature. Yes, things do get more complicated where human beings, and matters of free will, are involved. But that undercurrent of contention between God and that which derives from God – between God and the universe as the unfolding manifestation of God – still remains.

These three understandings – manifestation, collaboration, and contention – help to make up a philosophy I’ve come to call derivism. This philosophy has led me to a surprising understanding of God in relation to the universe and how that relationship addresses the problem of evil – both natural and human. That understanding is this:

At this moment – at every moment – God is offering us everything in his, in her power to give. God, who is Pure Love, isn’t withholding anything. But God is contending with our natural selves – ourselves physically, chemically, biologically, and psychologically.

Now, some might see this contention as limiting God, but once again that perception is a mistake, in my opinion, and is based on biases about God’s power that we bring to the table:

To view this truth as a limitation of our wonderful God

is a mistaken perception.

The reality of the power of the sacred Spirit of God

exerted in its fullness upon the natural world,

resulting in the development of life

through planetary history,

and climaxing with the advent of humanity—

this reality doesn’t limit or lower God,

rather it raises the universe

to its true significance and worth.

It raises the preciousness of life

as it is reflected in God’s eyes.

It raises God’s people, every human being,

to a deeper understanding of their roles

as collaborators in God’s plan,

as laborers of God’s love—

and sometimes, as those in need of special care.

The misconceptions surrounding God’s activity

in relation to the universe begin when we confuse

what God’s power actually is

with what we imagine it to be.

Just because we can imagine God’s power

being exerted on physical objects

like an actual hand would be exerted,

doesn’t mean that God actually works that way.

It seems very possible that the way God works—

maybe the way God must work

in accordance with reality—

is through the hearts and minds

and limbs of living things,

that this is the essential avenue

through which miracles occur,

especially within the human arena.

So for me, these answers and this awareness color everything I witness regarding the harsher realities of life – realities like death, accidents, natural disasters, disease, and human evil. I’ve come to realize that much of human evil can be attributed to a person’s reaction to the lack of God’s power and love in their lives. To quote Augustine, “Evil is the privation [or absence] of good.” Evil isn’t a real thing in itself. It is more like the absence of the Ultimately Real Thing – or One – which is God.

This philosophy of derivism helps me to not blame God for the essential way that the universe is developing, with all of its beauty and heartache. It’s a worldview that has served me well for over twenty years, through all kinds of turmoil – inner as well as outer. I came to this worldview as a Christian, and it has strengthened and revitalized my faith. But I don’t see derivism as an exclusively Christian philosophy. I can see it being applied to other faith traditions as well.

So to answer the question “Why does evil still occur if God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good?” my answer would have to be that God is doing everything in his, in her power to eradicate evil. God’s power is exerted in its fullness at every moment, but is contending with realities that derive directly from God, and thus have the power to resist God. So of the three classic attributes of God, two of them remain virtually untouched in derivism – God’s omniscience (all-knowingness) and God’s omnibenevolence (all-goodness). The third attribute – God’s omnipotence (all -powerfulness) – is simply revised to mean the kind of power that God’s power actually is and the way that God’s power actually works. If God’s omnipotence is real and our ideas of what constitute omnipotence are not, then we should be the ones changing our minds, and not expect God to change his, to change her Reality.

Who would want to change God’s Reality anyway? God is all-inclusive Pure Love and the universe is unfolding in accordance with that. This world, with all of its pain and struggle, is still a wondrous, exciting, and fulfilling place. As a human being thriving down here on planet Earth, I can think of no other place I’d rather be!

Permalink Reply by Jack Vorster on June 30, 2012 at 2:35am

Throughout the Bible we read and learn of the presence of Satan in the world as if he had a right to be here and ply his trade of wickedness. Why should a righteous God permit the devil's continued presence and works of evil upon mankind on this planet?

In discussing this matter with a life-long Christian friend of mine, Winston Graham White, he came up with a valid overview of the situation as follows:-

(Quote) I don’t think there is a short answer. Of course, God could have dealt with Satan any way he liked. But here is my brief thinking on the matter.

Firstly, Satan is God’s creation – a created (not begotten) son of God. (Job 1:6) “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.” He is not a creation that came out of a dualism of natures, good and evil. He was created out of the unity of God. I think this is the crux – the UNITY of God. We see in the OT how God even used Satan to test and try His people. He tempts Job only by divine permission, so God is always in control, just as in similar instances with David (1Chr 21:1) etc.

Secondly, and this is my best shot right now, because Satan was created a being with a free will, just like we are, he is being left for a limited time (entirely within God’s control) so that we would have free choice. I don’t believe God wants robots who love Him because he manipulates their wills. He wants us to willingly accept Him and love Him. So there must be choice. Satan is the alternative. Choose good or chose evil – God or Satan. It is for this time that God allows Satan free reign that we need to choose – it is God’s dispensation. And because Satan rebelled against Him, God now uses Satan to separate the goats from the sheep.

This could and should be dealt with more deeply, but that is the essence of how I see it. (Unquote)

Indeed, there is no short answer, but what is striking is the fact that God does not spell it out in His Word, the Bible. However, God does say that He will provide answers by revelation through the Holy Spirit. “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” (John 16:13-15)

While not claiming this to be a clear-cut, factual reason for the devil's continued presence, it is, nevertheless, the picture that comes to mind and the way I see it.

We all know what happened in the Garden of Eden. God gave man dominion over the Earth. In effect, He gave the title deed to man and man, in turn, gave the title deed to Satan. Therefore, God no longer had it and man no longer had it. Satan then became the “god of the Earth” and “prince of this world”.

Satan even offered the title to Jesus if Jesus would worship him.

Now if God had removed Satan after he had deceitfully usurped dominion over the Earth and attained the title deed in the Garden of Eden, then the title deed to the Earth certainly would not have been left to man in the (non-existing) last will and testament of Satan. And a righteous God certainly would not have illegally seized the title deed. So, the title deed would have been irrecoverable and, therefore, there would have been no point in redeeming a fallen man. Man would have been unredeemable and the Earth would have become an irredeemable piece of real estate.

Satan had to remain in order for man to be redeemed and to orchestrate a legal means of regaining the title deed.

It was from man that Satan took the title deed and it was going to have to be man that would take it back, but only a redeemed man would be in a legal position to do so. That's why the “Son the Man”, Jesus, brought about that redemption on behalf of man. We defeated Satan through Christ.

However, as redeemed men we became citizens of Heaven and we longer are of this Earth.

Satan, therefore, still possesses that title deed and all unbelievers remain under his reign. They are in this world and of this world. (Christians are in this world but not of it)

After the rapture and after the return to Earth together with Jesus, redeemed man (in Christ) will regain the title deed and Satan will be bound for a thousand years. Only then will redeemed man, under the Kingship of Christ, once again have dominion over the Earth. Those who have not made the rapture and have made it through the Great Tribulation and the “goat and sheep separation” and live on the Earth in their natural state, will fall under the rule of Christ and redeemed Christians, who will then exist in a glorified state.

The fact of Satan's presence is made clear in Eph 6:12. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

However, Jesus Christ has destroyed the works of the devil on behalf of man, enabling us to overcome the devil's evil antics. “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1John 3:8)

The world at large is either not familiar with this victory or simply just rejects it in unbelief. For those who do believe recognize that the devil is active, but they have chosen the abundant life. “The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10)

So, although the devil remains, his works are ineffective to those who believe and know that is only a matter of time before the title deed is officially handed back. And as ironic as this may seem, had God not permitted his continuance, man would have been doomed forever.

We can now look at the scenario as follows.

Imagine the world’s most dangerous criminal being brought to trial, convicted, and sentenced in a most unusual way. In laying down the sentence, the judge states: “You have been found guilty of the most heinous crimes imaginable, committed all over the world, leaving people of all walks of life devastated by your cruel and heartless actions against them. This day you are being judged once and for all. Every person in the world can claim victory over you this day. And I decree that insufficient justice will be served by banishing you to jail for life at this point in time. Therefore, you and your gang of thieves, robbers and murderers will remain free to roam the streets of the world where you will be recognized by all and despised by all. This day’s judgement will follow you wherever you go. I herewith, by the power of this judgement, grant authority to all the peoples of the world to make war against you and to overcome you when they see you or sense your presence in their midst. You will flee from all those who resist you. Those who innocently, through ignorance, fall prey to you will be given an opportunity to get their revenge. Those who willingly choose to side with you will eventually join you to banishment for eternity.”

Indeed, we serve a God of Grace and Wisdom.

Permalink Reply by Frank L. Jordan III on July 3, 2012 at 11:27am

Hello, Jack, glad to meet you!

I’m very familiar with this traditional Christian worldview when it comes to the existence of evil in the world. According to Holy Bible, the world was a paradise, a Garden of Eden, in which the first humans, Adam and Eve, were in harmony with nature and in direct contact with God. Then, a serpent (later understood to be the Devil) tempted Eve to eat of the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil, a tree that God specifically forbade Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of. Then Eve tempted Adam (because it’s always the woman’s fault) to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and they were both instantly convicted of this transgression. They were banished from paradise and made to work hard and have painful childbirths (just the women) for the rest of their days. All manner of evil and sin has come into the world because of when Adam and Eve (and by association the rest of humanity) fell from grace in the garden. The Devil, a.k.a. Satan, perpetuates this evil in the world.

I won’t get into the Christian answer to this dilemma, but I will say that I found your “title deed” analogy particularly memorable. The idea of Satan having to remain on the scene “in order for man to be redeemed and to orchestrate a legal means of regaining the title deed” reminds me of some of the legal wrangling displayed by Al Pacino’s character in the movie The Devil’s Advocate.

I think you’ll agree that to address the problem of evil – with all of its multifaceted forms – in this way displays a very fundamentalist perspective. It seems obvious to me that you think the Bible should be interpreted literally, and that that is why you draw so heavily from the Good Book in you explanation as to why God allows evil to occur.

On the other hand, I am not a fundamentalist, but a progressive Christian. While progressive Christians do take the Bible seriously, they don’t always take it literally. We often interpret scriptures metaphorically and symbolically, taking into account the cultures and the practices of the authors recording those scriptures at the time. This is why we no longer advocate for stoning to death adulterers and blasphemers -- or advocate for owning slaves -- even though those practices were supported in the Bible. Progressive Christians are particularly vexed by language that excludes people who are not of the Christian faith. That’s why it’s difficult for me to hear you say things like:

“Satan, therefore, still possesses that title deed and all unbelievers remain under his reign. They are in this world and of this world. (Christians are in this world but not of it.)”

Really? All unbelievers (people who do not believe in Jesus) are under Satan’s reign? They are in this world and of this world, but Christian’s are not of it?

It is not that cut and dry, Jack. It is not that black and white. There are many people who profess to be Christians who also do evil’s bidding, and many people who do not profess a belief in Christ who do good and holy works. Do you really think the unbelievers (in Christ) are under Satan’s reign? And you don’t have to remind me that St. Paul said that Christians are justified by faith and not by works. I know that. I also know that any defense of dogma by using similar dogma is just a circular argument.

My point is that for you to use language like what’s found in your quote is unnecessarily hurtful to people of other faiths. It is outmoded and outdated. I also believe it’s a poor representation of what Jesus really came here to say and do. He said:

"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven.” (Luke 6:37)

He also said, “How can you think of saying, 'Friend, let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,' when you can't see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.” (Luke 6:42)

Truer advice was never given. When it comes to the spiritual state of a person, whatever their faith tradition, we should suspend all judgment out of respect for their relationship with God, in my opinion. Only God truly knows a person’s heart and mind.

Now, to get back to the original point concerning evil in the world. Taken metaphorically, the story of evil in the Bible is a fascinating account of how ancient people came to grips with the realities of life that can cause needless pain and suffering. Early humanity (Adam and Eve) evolved out of a state of pre-human moral ignorance (the Garden of Eden) to find itself on the threshold of a new moral awareness (eating of The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil). Once this awareness was established, early humans became aware of all manner of evil and summed up this experience by eventually attributing it to the adversary of God, Satan. Satan then became the symbol for the source of all evil.

I, too, took a shot at this period of human history in my book of philosophy, but with a different outcome:

This life blossomed into humanity, by God’s touch,

in collaboration with its unique yearning—

became men and women, of many colors.

And it would seem, they tasted of their destiny.

It would also seem, God saw them as very good.

With the advent of human consciousness in the world,

there came into existence a great paradox.

The early humans were the first to conceive of God as holy,

powerful, loving, and all-knowing.

They often experienced God’s presence and love directly.

But they also suffered greatly.

They felt pain, hunger, fear.

They knew disease.

They had accidents.

Sometimes the environment turned against them.

They encountered evil,

within themselves and among each other.

If God is good,

if God loved them and wanted to help them, heal them,

had the power to save them from suffering,

why were they allowed to suffer?

This is the great paradox—

imperfect creatures in an imperfect world,

suffering in the presence of an all-knowing,

all-loving, and all-powerful God.

And from the earliest of times this paradox

has caused a multitude of barriers

to arise within the hearts and minds of humans,

inner walls between them and God,

barriers of anger, hurt, shame,

confusion, and isolation—

barriers that have followed humanity

into the present day.

The fact is that simply existing as a human being

is a barrier within itself.

The phenomenon of a bio-physical organism—

a species that emerged

from practical nothingness and unknowingness

to reach the summit of human consciousness—

is nothing short of a miracle.

But it is a miracle that God has wrestled with over untold eons,

an emerging miracle that God wrestles with today.

I see understanding evil and its causes as being an evolving awareness. I, for one, hope to be a part of that spiritual evolution.

And yes, Jack, we do indeed serve a God of Grace and Wisdom. On that we can agree.

Permalink Reply by Sondra Sneed on July 3, 2012 at 12:28pm

Hi Frank,

I notice you refer to man as imperfect and in an imperfect world, which is a common idea.

I would argue, however, we are not looking at ourselves or each other the way God sees us, because if we did we would see that we are indeed perfect.

It is a misconception that we are imperfect that causes so much strife in human life because we use others as our mirror for ourself and reflect back on that which does not "measure up" instead of express what is truly the nature of God within. That is what Namaste refers to... The divine within me sees the divine within you.

Permalink Reply by Frank L. Jordan III on July 4, 2012 at 2:58pm

Thank you for your comment, Sondra.

When I was referring to humanity's and the world's imperfections, I was doing so in the context of people (both ancient and contemporary) perceiving imperfection as being those qualities in themselves and in the world that cause needless pain and suffering. And yes, this does often involve us "not looking at ourselves or each other the way God sees us ... "

But I still wouldn't say that to look at ourselves the way that God sees us is to see that we're perfect. I would rather say that to look at ourselves the way that God does is to see ourselves as perfectly loved, and as perfectly human -- meaning that we are works in progress. Maybe this would help to define us less as human "beings" and more like human "becomings"!

I know I'm not perfect. That is the reality of my life. But I still try to avoid using others as mirrors to compare myself to. I do try to draw out the divine within others by treating them with love and respect, which I believe is a way of accessing the divine within myself. I believe the divine within me can see the divine within you without me having to be a perfect person.

Oh, and by the way, Happy Independence Day, Sondra! It's a day that we can all be free any perceptions of imperfection -- at least as a nation!

Permalink Reply by Sondra Sneed on July 4, 2012 at 3:22pm

Happy celebrate freedom day to you, too, Frank! And I think you are absolutely perfect! Perfect in the way that this is exactly where you are supposed to be right now. You will see yourself in that way soon enough, but I certainly don't find fault with how you see yourself, even if you see it as imperfect. :)

Permalink Reply by Frank L. Jordan III on July 5, 2012 at 12:11pm

Perfectly understood, Sondra! ;o)

Permalink Reply by jeff herman on July 2, 2012 at 3:31pm

In the Book of Job, Satan sits at G-d's table as a surrogate. There's no indication of antipathy or fear by either party towards the other, though Satan is rather cynical about mortals. Satan is given a very clear assignment with clear parameters by G-d to essentially destroy Job's life and health without killing him for the purpose of testing his faith. Nothing that happens is Satan's idea; he simply follows orders. We can figure out what that obviously tells us about the origin and purpose of good and evil. If we decide that Job is a non-binding myth not a fact, then we need to accept that all Biblical anecdotes are potentially non-binding myths.

Permalink Reply by Sondra Sneed on July 3, 2012 at 10:13am

I really enjoy the way jews see Satan. Christianity has turned him(?) into an enemy of God rather than God's messenger.

In my book, God defines evil very clearly as 'that which is the suppression of Love.' And that's it. In my study I saw that the etymology of the word evil is germanic from ubel, which means up from under. That's all it means. So if we suppress Love, what comes up from under is, well, evil.

But God also says in my book that evil cannot reign supreme because it is a very very very small spec compared to the love that creates all.